Pseudoephedrine Acetate

Just a reprint. What do I think? Well, I would like the titled material to be analogous to chloroephedrine, but this is just a salt of the amine using acetic as the acid, a result of the isolation process from pills. Much of it is in traffic in Mexico; apparently the superlabs also purchase material which at one time was in pills. The second article is about a seizure.

Meth Synthesis W/ephedrine, HI, Red Phosphorus
by Cousin Singe
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All you people who want an easy meth systhesis – They don’t exist! You have to know some chemistry. Learn some (yes it takes some discipline) or be doomed to fail.

So, again, this information is posted for information purposes only. I accept no responsibility for anyone actually using this. If you do you will be subject to state and federal laws and will be subject to fines and/or imprisonment. If you are stupid enough to actually manufacture meth you WILL probably go to prison. This is the 90’s.

So to make meth from ephedrine- Using l- or pseudo ephedrine place 1000 gms of ephedrine, 250gms of red phosphorus, and 1000ml of hydriotic acid in a suitable round bottom flask. Fit the flask with a reflux condenser and reflux the mixture for 48hrs at 120 degrees C. Add a 10% solution of sodium hydroxide until the Ph is 14. You should get an oil layer and a water layer. Separate the oil layer in a separatory funnel and put it a flask with 3 volumes of water. Rig the flask for distillation and distill the oil water mixture until the oil is mostly gone (except for highly colored globs of oil.) In the reciever flask there should be two layers, an upper oil layer and a lower water layer. Separate the oil layer and mix it with 10% hydrochloric acid until the Ph is 7.6. evaporate the water and it will crystallize into methamphetamine hcl.

——

“We have observed that mixtures containing red phosphorus, iodine and either concentrated HCl or glacial acetic acid do convert ephedrine to methamphetamine; however, when the phosphorus is omitted, methamphetamine is not formed. Ephedrine was reacted with red phosphorus and iodine in refluxing water, varying the ratios of red phosphorus and iodine; when red phosphorus and iodine are in excess of ephedrine in a 1:3.8:7.2 molar ratio (ephedrine:red phosphorus:iodine) methamphetamine is formed and the ephedrine is consumed in 8 hours.”

Anyone have any thoughts, experience with the typical E-RP-HA when the usually separate step of creating the hydriotic acid is omitted and the three chemicals are just reacted in refluxing water. It seems like that is what is being described (along with acid substitution).

——

Materials:

1. 30ml bottle tincture iodine containing 2% iodine, sodium iodide 2.4%, alcohol 47%, rest H20

2. 5 Sinustop Herbal Decongestant tablets containing 60mg crystaline pseudoephedrine HCl each mixed with some herbal ingrediants. Or 300mg of ephedrine obtained thru some other method.

3. 5 road flares.

4. Bottle of drain cleaner containg conc. H2SO4

5. Bottle white distilled vinegar

6. Red devil Lye containing sodium hydroxide

7. Spray can of brake cleaner containing 1,1,1 trichloroethylene or 1,1,1 trichloroethane

Procedure:

A. Purifying pseudoephedrine:

1. Take the 5 decongestant capsules, empty their contents into a small funnel with a coffee filter. Pour 50ml of cold water through the filter, and collect the liquid in a small jar.

2. Add a 1/4tsp of lye to the collected liquid. You should immediately smell the odor of ephedrine.

3. Put the resultant solution in another small jar, and add 50ml of brake cleaner, then close the lid and shake vigorously. Let stand so that the layers seperate.

4. Using a turkey baster, suck up the bottom brake cleaner layer out of the jar and put it into a small bowl.

5. Add 50ml of vinegar and heat the resultant mixure over low heat in a frying pan with 1/2 inch of water. Thus a water bath. Do not use a gas stove, since the brake cleaner vapors will produce toxic phosgene if there is contact with a flame. Instead use a hot plate or electric stove at low heat only.

6. Heat the bowl in the water bath until no more liquid is left. At the bottom will be a solid layer of a pseudoephedrine acetate.

B. Preparing the red phosphorus:

1. Scrape the red phosphorus off of the caps of the 5 flares and store for later use. You should get about 0.1g per flare.

C. Preparing the iodine/HI solution:

1. Pour the entire bottle of the iodine tincture into a small ceramic bowl. Heat on the above type water bath until no more alcohol is left. Let cool, put in a small polyethylene jar, and add 0.1ml of the H2SO4 drain cleaner. Thats about 1/4inch of liquid in the end of an eye dropper. This converts the sodium iodide to HI. You now have a solution of iodine and HI. 2. Add the red phosphorus, and heat bottle in a water bath until the purple iodine color goes away.

D. The reaction:

1. Add the pseudoephedrine acetate to the solution of HI/I and phosphorus, and heat on a water bath for 24 hours.

E: Extraction:

1. Cool the reaction solution and add 1/2tsp of lye. Take the solution and perform steps A3-A6. 2. You will end up with methamphetamine acetate that you can scrape from the bowl.

Congradulations! You have circumvented all of law enforcement and have greatly contributed to the end of the “drug war”. (or contributed to the outlaw of all flares, iodine tincture, vignegar, drain cleaners, and auto store chemicals and coffee filters as will happen in the next year)

Best regards, Cousin Singe

————

FAQ fodder…

If methamphetamine looks waxy or oily, it is probably contaminated with the HI salt of meth, an oily by-product of the red-phosphorous/HI reduction of ephedrine–the most prevalent method of clandestine manufacture.

The HI salt is soluble in acetone, while the HCL salt is only very slightly soluble. The HI salt could be washed out, basified, and then precipitated with HCl gas to give methamphetmine HCL.

When completely dry, methamphetamine HCL is soluble in chloroform, while ephedrine HCL is not. This would provide a convenient method of separation.

[Reference: Skinner, Harry F., "Methamphetamine Synthesis Via Hydriotic Acid/Red Phosphorous Reduction Of Ephedrine," Forensic Science International, Vol 48, 1990, pp. 123-134]

M1A2 Abrams-United States

M1A2 Abrams United States

T-90S Russia

T-90S Russia

Type 99 China

Type 99 China

Mexico meth raid yields $205 million in U.S. cash
Authorities say it’s the largest drug money haul in history and reflects a vast global trade. Gang said to supply U.S.
By Hector Tobar and Carlos Martinez Times Staff Writers

March 17, 2007
MEXICO CITY – Authorities confiscated more than $200 million in U.S. currency from methamphetamine producers in one of this city’s ritziest neighborhoods, they said Friday, calling it the largest drug cash seizure in history.

The seizure reflected the vast scope of an illegal drug trade linking Asia, Mexico and the United States, officials said. Two of the seven people arrested Thursday at a faux Mediterranean villa in the Lomas de Chapultepec neighborhood were Chinese nationals.

The group was part of a larger drug-trafficking organization that imports “precursor chemicals” from companies in India and China for processing into methamphetamine in Mexican “super labs,” authorities said. The methamphetamine is eventually sold in the United States.

The raid resulted from an investigation that began in December, when authorities seized 19 tons of pseudoephedrine, a cold medicine that is a key ingredient in the production of methamphetamine, at a Mexican port on the Pacific Coast.

A legally registered Mexican company, listed by a trade association as the country’s third-largest importer of pseudoephedrine, was implicated, officials said.

Mexican drug-trafficking organizations have become increasingly important in the U.S. methamphetamine trade, because the U.S. has imposed tougher controls on the sale of the chemicals used to produce the highly addictive drug.

President Felipe Calderon hailed the seizure as a major development in his government’s war on drug traffickers, who have ravaged several Mexican cities and towns.

“We are working in a decisive manner to save our country and to keep Mexico safe and clean,” Calderon told an audience in Tijuana. “I don’t even want to imagine how many young people this gang poisoned with its drugs. But I can assure you, they will do it no longer.”

Mexican officials said the cash seized was mostly in U.S. $100 bills and weighed at least 4,500 pounds.

“Kudos for the Mexicans,” said Donald C. Semesky, financial operations chief for the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration. “They’re very serious in this effort, and we commend them.”

U.S. officials said that, if confirmed, the cash seizure would be several times larger than any other made from drug traffickers. A spokesman for the Mexican attorney general’s office said that experts were still analyzing the $205.6 million in cash to check for counterfeits but that the bills appeared to be legitimate.

Officials with the attorney general’s organized crime unit used a moving truck, guarded by a 25 patrol-car caravan, to take the money to its headquarters.

Authorities said the traffickers were led by a naturalized Mexican citizen of Chinese descent who appeared to have left the country.

Several machines for manufacturing pills were found at the site, but the group did not produce drugs there. The mansion appeared to serve as a financial operations center and cash storage facility.

Exclusive neighborhood

The neighborhood is home to some of the capital’s wealthiest residents and many members of the diplomatic corps. The back of the property is contiguous with a racquetball court at the Ukrainian ambassador’s residence. The Israeli Embassy is a few blocks away.

Most neighbors and the many maids and security guards who work in the area declined to comment on the raid. The few who did said they had no knowledge of illicit activity.

“The problem is that all of these houses are veritable fortresses,” said one of the neighborhood’s security guards, who asked not to be named. “You never know what goes on inside. The doors open automatically. The owners all have chauffeurs. People go in and out, and you never see anything.”

A driver-bodyguard arrested at the house had told neighbors he was a retired lieutenant colonel in the Mexican army. Neighbors said he walked a German shepherd along the tree-lined streets.

Authorities said the chain of events that brought police to the mansion began in December, when they discovered a shipping container filled with barrels of pseudoephedrine on a storage lot at customs offices in Lazaro Cardenas, a port city about 175 miles northwest of Acapulco.

The chemicals had been manufactured in China and shipped to Mexico on a British-flagged vessel that was bound for Long Beach. The seizure led authorities to a chemical company, Unimed Pharm Chem, based in the city of Toluca, about 40 miles west of Mexico City. The company reported legally importing 32 tons of pseudoephedrine in 2004.

“The resulting investigation showed that this company illegally imported … pseudoephedrine acetate from India,” the attorney general’s office said in a statement. “These chemicals are used to illegally produce methamphetamines.”

Mexican Atty Gen. Eduardo Medina Mora said in a radio interview that one of the Chinese exporters involved in shipping the chemicals to Mexico is an illicit “shadow” company not registered with Chinese authorities.

Last year, Mexican authorities raided what they termed the largest methamphetamine lab in the Western Hemisphere at an industrial park in Guadalajara. The factory had 11 custom-designed pressure cookers capable of producing 400 pounds of the drug each day, about 20 times the production of a typical California lab.

Saturday, August 16, 2008 Guadalajara

Saturday, August 16, 2008 Guadalajara

U.S. officials estimate that 80% of the methamphetamine sold on U.S. streets is produced by Mexican criminal organizations.

For these drug cartels, whose business mushroomed when they became the middlemen in the shipment of Colombian cocaine to the United States, methamphetamine is a lucrative side business worth billions of dollars, analysts say.

Officials at the DEA’s Office of Financial Operations estimated that 90% of the money transferred from the United States to Latin American suppliers of drugs leaves the U.S. as cash. Drug traffickers transfer $8 billion to $24 billion to Mexico each year, according to authorities.

$100 bills preferred

Most of the cash is carried across the U.S.-Mexico border by car or on foot as $10 and $20 bills and later converted to $100 bills, officials say.

Semesky said $100 bills are the preferred method for making large payments between drug organizations, because they are less bulky. With $20 bills, $1 million weighs 110 pounds.

“They don’t want to build a storage location for 20s,” the DEA’s Semesky said of the drug traffickers. “You’re talking about decreasing that bulk at least five times.”

Before Friday, the largest reported amount of cash seized by Mexican authorities was $7 million, which was found inside electric appliances at Mexico City’s international airport in 2005. The appliances were headed for Colombia.

Mexican officials said they worked past midnight Thursday to count the seized bills, which were hidden inside locked metal shelves, suitcases and closets. It was five times the amount that was seized in all of 2006 by Mexican authorities in anti-narcotic and money-laundering operations.

To provide a sense of the scale of the money involved, Mexican media compared the amount seized to various items in the 2007 federal budget.

The $205.6 million was more than the funding allocated to pensions for the handicapped by Mexico’s social security agency. It exceeded the amount of public funds provided to Mexico’s political parties for campaign spending and also surpassed the budget of the Mexican Senate.

“It’s a lot of money, and we didn’t know a thing,” said one security guard assigned to a nearby property. “We work outside and can’t even imagine what goes on inside these houses.”

126 Responses to “Pseudoephedrine Acetate”

  1. Armand Zaleski Says:

    This was a Great wordpress post, I will be sure to save this in my Mixx account. Have a great day.

  2. ronUnagogeack Says:

    Hello guys and girls, just wanted to put my first post in the into area and say hi and glad to be here.

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  3. amir Says:

    hi everybody i am an iranian boy and i am so excited because of this site i love chimestery and making met but i cant because the materials and their prices i am searching on a flower as efderia for pure pseudoephderin if you can help me sorry for typing bye.

  4. jessica Says:

    hi! Ive been searching information about how to cook meth. I dont really know much about chemestry but I want to be sure about what to do, I dont want to cause an explotion or something on my first time. If you know a much simpler or faster way to cook it please reply the link.
    thanx!!

    • andy Says:

      hola,tengo pseudoefedrina y me gustaria cocinarla con el metodo de fosforo,sabes darme algun consejo,contestame porfavor,gracias y un saludo

    • J Says:

      If You dont have any chemistry knowledge then this isnt for you. making meth is difficult and dangerous. No matter how carefull you are you can still have an explosion when you gas it off or even filter it, Best advice hang out with a professional cook with up to date recipies and good quality lab equipment,

  5. ictwenty Says:

    @number Three there are three layers of cake the middle layer looks like icing.
    @5 the distilled vineger is layered on top is this correct?

  6. Boris Says:

    Hi,i am an guy from Serbia,that wants to give this little state in Eastern Europe a little bit of energy.Here,methamphetamine is really rare.It’s most common – heroin.
    Anyway…I purified my pseudo tablets (30mg of pseudo + 70mg of ibuprofen) in aceton.I did it 3 times.Now ,i have in a jar red liquid made of pseudo and acetone. What is my next step?I have everything except toulene.
    Anyway, i was thinking about puting water,muriatic acid,and red phosphorus to another jar , then add the mixture of other to it (other = aceton + pseudo mixture).
    If i do that,what will i get at the and ,and what shall i do with my red mixture of pseudo efed and aceton in jar?
    pls answer to mcbasileus@yahoo.com or here…

    Hope hearing soon , ;)

  7. sbillinghurst Says:

    At the time I wrote this post I speculated that pseudoephedrine acetate was found in Mexico because it must have originated from the diversion of pills, and the use of acetic acid was explained by the difficulty of obtaining other acids in Mexico.

    James Cunningham is the name of a professor at the University of Arizona who is frequently asked to speculate on this aspect, the diversion of precursor chemicals. He now speculates that the Mexicans are making it via P2P, so, some large amount of phenylacetic acid was seized. A second source I located recently stated that pseudoephedrine now costs $10,000 a kilo on the black market there.

    It is my belief that some knowledge can be gained from any seizure if you have figured already that there is ephedrine and pseudoephedrine, and there is natural and synthetic. While both of these configurational isomers may be made synthetically, an ephdra plant can only make ephedrine. All of the pseudo is synthetic. That means, of course, that the mechanism by which dope appears is certainly more corrupt, since it takes a giant, government-sanctioned plant to manufacture chemicals, and that there is no possibility that simple agrarian means are used to circumvent the law.

    In addition, I wonder how I could have missed the application of “pseudoephedrine acetate” being the R-OH —-> R-H intermediate such that the one time R-OH —-> R-Cl —-> R-H method (Emde, 1929) now has a method summarized R-OH —-> R-OAc —-> R-H, using an electrochemical cell, meaning that once more, the need for precursors of any kind is made moot. We can use electricity instead of buying new chemicals. This intermediate is a “pseudoephedrine acetate”, where the acetate group is part of the molecule and not just the counterion in an acid-base salt.

  8. James Mathers Says:

    Your second source claiming that pseudoephedrine hcl is now 10,000/kilo, is not only grossly exaggerated, but retarded. Not even close.

    • sbillinghurst Says:

      Well, the playbook of the master race says to demonize anything or anyone and the unthinking populace will destroy who you tell them to destroy. Witness the war in Iraq. Here, the greed of the taxpayer is stimulated as they are made to feel like chumps for not taking advantage of that easy illegal money. LE kills and jails so many, they are like tobacco companies; they must create new victims. How they do it is to shift the focus away from the substance and onto the equivalent harm that much illegal money does, and, how it’s done is simply to assert that if you paid $10 for a gram, that you will pay, uh, whatever that turns out to be by the kilo. Are you willing to transact a g for less than ten bucks? The narcs have been calculating the egregiousness of crime based on what a ton of pot sells for in joints for a hundred years. Ain’t nothin new.

  9. Meth pseudoephedrine | Inkinmyblood Says:

    [...] Pseudoephedrine Acetate « How to Make MethamphetamineThe Show-Me Institute’s Official Blog. … As Stokes pointed out, putting pseudoephedrine behind a prescription likely wouldn’t stop meth production. And on top of that, it would make the medicine prohibitively expensive for many. [...]

  10. goatfucker Says:

    meth is bad mmmmmkay

  11. FFD Says:

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  12. JK Says:

    碘红磷合成麻黄碱计量温度及步骤!如果可以的话!谢谢你发到我邮箱!

  13. idiot hunter Says:

    The serbian guy forgot about the iodine, my pet frog says. He needs to learn to google, the frog said again.

    The frog also said who cares about the acetate vs HCL. Both have the same affect. Frog also thought the acetate form is maybe easier to snort to avoid meth smells for smokers.

    Frog thinks putting this receipe out there, with details to produce such a small amount, is going to encourage a lot more home cookers again, since getting such small amounts of precursors will make it impossible to track.

    Frog thinks the US DEA may go stupid and ban psuedoephedrine, as it will only lead to chenists finding a new precursor. Frog has read papers on how the replacement for psuedo can and does make meth too, and worst that replacement will actually make meth cooks learn how to make ecstasy too….something the current meth process won’t show most meth cooks who are not trained chemists.

    Frog ended by thinking how stupid the US was and is to trust the Mexican govt to find the fake money….some of the money will be stolen by the corrupt wetbacks.

    Frog thinks the money should be used by the mexican govt, but that fighting meth gangs is like fighting cocaine gangs. It will never end. Stop trying to stop wetback meth makers, and just keep them out of the USA. Let US home cooks blow themselves up or die from poison gas since most of these “receipes” don’t say how to avoid the deadly gas in a given phase for one process, how to watch pH, or how to avoid explosions with pressure gauges in another process.

    What does a frog now.

  14. pork loving muslimm Says:

    I love pork, I love jews, and I love to feed meth to other ragheads so they die. I give them 10g a day so they die quick and fast.

    Piger imagines Jessica is dumb. This receipe makes a tiny bit of meth so small it can’t get an ant high. It is almost idiot proof except for one stage where the poster warns of gas but doesn’t warn you can still die because he doesn’t mention the simple safety.

    piger thinks if jessica must try for the easiest way and the safest way, she better follow the meth HCL normal RPI method by Fester and she better remember why two bottles are used with a hose running from the cooking jar to the other jar with water. It is to save her life if phosphene gas gets too high and she passes out.

    Piger is confused. RPI does not blow up. That is the nazi method. RPI only blows up people dumb enough to mishandle ether or light up other solvents to clean pills or when bubbling HCL to make crystals.

  15. pork loving muslimm Says:

    Piger is a character in a play written by a frog. nothing piger writes is real about feeding ragheads meth….but he does love pork.

  16. Xveckthorn Says:

    Jesus drinks coffee.

    I’m wondering – has anyone ever carried out a steam extraction of (pseudo)ephedrine from pills to get their precursor? It’s in both of Fester’s most recent books, but I’ve never heard of anyone actually carrying it out successfully. I’d like to just forget about it because it seems overly complicated compared to other extraction methods I’ve heard described, but the only other method I’m aware of that cleans pseudo enough for a emulsion-free Red P/HI reduction involve the use of trichloroethylene from brake cleaners, but none of the brake cleaners on the shelves of my local shops have trichloroethylene in them anymore (including CRC). Here’s a little run-down of the steam extraction process (not exactly verbatim, but relatively close thereto):

    “Tubing is run from a sealed pressure cooker to a glass tube with a jetted tip, which jetted-tip glass tube is directed into the side-arm of a 2-neck flask containing an aqueous (pseudo)ephedrine solution (containing a bit of HCl to prevent too much water from evaporating away to help maintain the original volume of solution). The steam travels through the top of the flask and through a condenser, and the contents of the receiving flask (post-completion of the steaming process) are simmered down to about 20% of its original volume. The (pseudo)ephedrine alkaloids are then based and extracted with a NPS, and the extract is gassed for fairly pure crystals of Pseudoephedrine HCl.”

    • sbillinghurst Says:

      Hello, Xv.
      1. There’s a cart-before-the-horse problem here. The lab of a chemist should already have a boiler; it’s called Hot Shot, retails for $1500 and I’ve seen them on eBay for $20-$100. There is no other acceptable source of live steam. It’s used to separate top-quality meth oil in kilogram quantities. It’s also used to clean jewelry, but the last jeweler I visited didn’t have a vacuum pump for lost-wax casting, a steamer, an ultrasonic cleaner, so, there are different philosophies. Unless we fire back at the Mexicans who stole our business, we’re toast. I think the market has expanded to the tens of tons per year level.
      2. Do you want to poison yourself? You are going to look funny with gray skin and yellow eyes. Lose the tricholoroethylene. Keep some dichloromethane (DCM, methylene chloride).
      3. I don’t like going over this once per reader, and, I don’t owe my readers diddly squat. Some websites have a million visitors. Don’t do this again.
      4. Methamphetamine will poison you, just sayin’. You need a ton, and a ton of money coming back, and no meth in your house. I might as well talk to the wall.
      5. The freezing point of pseudo is so high I bet it clogs a condenser at room temperature. Meth doesn’t.
      6. I don’t see any need to hydrochlorate pseudo base just to go and add it to HI.
      7. Yes we need a way to get suzy out of pills.
      8. Screw that glass tube with a jetted tip. My boiler came with a copper tube. I slipped a cork up it to the correct distance such that with the cork in the flask, the tube didn’t punch a hole in the flask, something a jetted tip is poised to do. I got the steam going without a lot of water dripping and jammed it in. The process started immediately and was over in ten minutes. With meth, there are biphase water-white drops until it’s done, it makes ice. I had the cork wrapped in one-inch teflon tape securing its position along the copper tube. It became soaked in oil anyway. All such materials should be sealed from air or it volatilizes and undoubtably shows up in your kid’s blood. Be prepared always to think, “I’ll sacrifice this.” What about the thing where the glass tube attaches? It does no good to have a thick rubber hose carrying steam go into a glass tube for cleanliness. The real deal is a Kel-F (best) or Viton (worse) O-ring sealing a stainless steel rig to a glass tube. In the internal generation of steam nothing pokes into the flask, but you must add water. In the external generation of steam, if the heating is turned off, the steam generator will suck the batch backwards. I had a garden hose full blast attached to the boiler. It’s automatically regulated to deliver dry steam, not third-degree burns. I did worry that if it was not taken care of before I got it, the boiler could explode, but, there exist boilermakers who can address that issue.
      9. You do not, repeat not, boil down based-over amines or they disappear into the air. Who is telling you this stuff? You lead your condenser 105-degree drip-tip into a sep funnel (I had a 6-liter). I had the tip of that extending out the bottom of a styrofoam bucket with ice, because, can I tell you this? The coefficient of expansion for teflon differs from that of glass. You could have a stopcock in an ice bath and when you go look at it it has loosened and spilled all the product. I wanted ice because I did not want volatile amines going everywhere costing me money. Anyhow, you tap out the bottom (water) layer, saving you the trouble of boiling it.
      10. I tell you brother, don’t self-destruct my Midwestern United States with your bad ideas, poison, and poor laboratory technique. Go recruit some of those chemists coming out of school with no jobs.

      Giving you the finger,
      Steve

  17. Xveckthorn Says:

    I hadn’t read the portion of Fester’s book that contains this extraction technique (Secrets of Meth 8th Edition, Pages 129-131) for some time before posting that rough outline of the process. I read over it last night to determine what I had botched in my post. The boil-down occurs after throwing a shot of HCl into the steam distillate. I’m not too concerned with the actual steaming portion of the process; I’ve performed this portion with no hassle (not as the apparatus is shown in the book, but with a traditional essential oil steam extraction setup). However, as I was reading through the book last night, I noted that Fester gives mention to the *idea* of boiling down the acidified steam distillate to dryness, and then scraping up the crude pseudo from the baking dish (or other drying vessel) and recrystallizing it in some hot acetone or washing it with some cold acetone before proceeding with further purification. Now, as I read that there may be a way to come out with clean pseudo without having to base and gas (I’m not a fan of gassing – especially without the proper tools to concoct a suckback trap readily at hand), I thought back to another method of pill extraction that I had been instructed to employ while I was being educated on variations of the Birch reduction. This method consisted of grinding up the pills to a powder, placing the pill mass into a jar containing methanol, and then placing the jar into the freezer for three hours (I determined with experimentation that the three hour period that I was instructed to adhere to was to bring the temperature of the methanol to below 0 deg. F.). After the three hour period had elapsed, “the waxes and binders should be frozen”, and could be filtered out before the temperature came back up too much. Once the solid components of the jar had been filtered out, the filtrate could be simmered to dryness, leaving crude pseudoephedrine in the baking dish. I repeated the whole process two more times with the crude pseudoephedrine to try to get out as much of the garbage as I could. I’m wondering, now, if I could recrystallize this semi-clean but still fairly crude pseudoephedrine in hot acetone. I envy your extensive knowledge of the subject, Steve, and greatly appreciate your constructive criticisms. What are you thoughts on recrystallizing pseudoephedrine that was pretreated as described above? I’m fairly confident that a lot of the binders and gaks are removed with this technique when using a Pyrex fritted disc filter funnel as opposed to a standard Buchner funnel with filter paper as most home chemists are accustomed to using, buf I value your opinions because you’re a seasoned chemist and you take the extra step of analyzing the different components of these techniques to weed out the best route to take or what routes to avoid altogether. Kudos ;)

  18. sbillinghurst Says:

    when you said this…I hadn’t read the portion of Fester’s book that contains this extraction technique (Secrets of Meth 8th Edition, Pages 129-131) for some time before posting that rough outline of the process. I read over it last night to determine what I had botched in my post. The boil-down occurs after throwing a shot of HCl into the steam distillate.

    Then it gets to the boil-down, coming back to a meth isolation process, because that’s what I tried myself. And, my meth oil was in a top layer, but I saved all the water layer, too, figuring it might have a lot of meth, but the amount was low, less than a gram per liter. I knew that because it was almost unbuffered; it took only a few drops conc. HCl to neutralize. You must determine how pseudo partitions between a layer of it and a layer of water; it’s probably better than meth since it has a hydroxyl group, water has a hydroxyl group, and, like dissolves like. But, it is going to freeze, too.

    The idea of a methanol extraction by freezing out insoluble matter is to invite blindness. Methanol is a specific toxin for the optic nerve, it is cumulative, it is absorbed through the skin.

    People who use methanol might wear masks, masks prevent breathing stuff in, the right kind with charcoal. But, I transfer it from a sealed bottle, I only have it open a minute, into an alcohol lamp, and, I am putting that into a paint can first chance I get. You don’t want to make a habit of standing over a vaporous funnel full of methanol.

    Read the old school stuff when they used it; they even went ahead and extracted with benzene, and they didn’t trifle with methanol. Ethanol’s fine, acetone is very forgiving on poisoning and will burn us. You don’t need the top solvent for the job, just more of the second choice. If conditions have ramped up the risk for the right things, it’s going to be a rough ride.

    Zero-odor, zero-flame, zero-solvent processes are called ‘click chemistry’. The HI with steam is the closest to that I know, although I boiled it with phosphorous still in it once and it made me sick and high. I’d filter out that P twice before I did anything else with it.

    I don’t know about binders in pills, just mainly that the cops will kill you for smurfing. When I did it, “D&E Phramaceuticals” on the back of High Times would charge about double for the contained material and only kiss it with chalk, during 1990. It was made to be extracted, is my point. If it’s made to foil diversion, you got to give them the benefit of the doubt, see? We’d usually go around one last time with the people who supplied it last, make them supply it again, but, that’s been done. Now they’ll get it either way they go, so, give it to ‘em. “U can’t make suzy and not make it for me, bitch”. Whatever, war’s a crying shame.

    When you find out how it’s done, don’t forget to kick down, turkey. With the method.

    Let’s go home. Don’t just keep driving that train, high on cocaine.

  19. abe lincoln could care less about losing meth money to mexicans Says:

    That last post is interesting.

    Click chemistry….nice term. Boiling or water baths with no “safety” (you suggest boiling in a ceramic bowl (I went and assumed you meant something strong made of a brand I won’t name made with layers of bors…glass (i.e. sheets of pyrex grade glass)….nice! Are you trying to kill your readers? I’m sure the “assumption” is that phospene gas isn’t produced at this reduced level (via steam) but you know how frying pans vary, ceramic bowls do, hot plates go bad, and the gas has no odor….speaking of killing the audience.

    Contrary to all the self alleged “chemists” out there, why not just had them get a read good quality mason jar and run into another such jar, drill 2 holes between the jar to steam boil (cook) and use the tube to capture that gas you assume won’t occur?

    Let the Serbian, Iranian, and whoever die their natural meth death! hehehehehehhee

    • sbillinghurst Says:

      where to begin…
      “click chemistry” is not an interesting term. Similar to “combinatorial chemistry” or “fractals”, it’s a whole giant way of looking at chemistry (cf. “nanotechnology”, “green tech”) which did not exist twenty years ago, and, it is not for you to muse on, it is for you to Google and to get started putting into practice. Barry Sharpless, a Noble Laureate, invented it, and he has been brought here to San Diego. We have him. The prototypical genius is Corey of Harvard. He invented LHASA, logic and heuristics applied to synthetic analysis, a computer program, in the ‘Seventies. The enterprise of chemistry has a thousand genius-level researchers at any one time. It’s mankind’s last best hope.

      Your style is the bemused observer of a typical voyeristic society, but cooks are outlaws and rebels. The computer is what escaped the laboratory and brought know-nothings like you into it. Chemists make weapons of mass destruction, but let’s get real. This wasn’t invented to be a weapon. It’s a sticking point we use to fight for our freedom with, in the knowledge that otherwise we are marginalized from society and made to feel like surplus population. Your so-called industry of rehab is just another self-perpetuating myth, brought largely along by a cowardly social ethic which refuses to punish behavior as a crime, and instead asserts that a grown man is in the grip of a drug he can’t control, or other ridiculous lies. If somebody takes drugs, it is because they must want to more than they care what happens because of doing it.

      I’m staring at your text, at a loss for words. “Hot plates go bad”. Right. How do they do that?

      Didn’t I tell Xv that methanol was poison? And, you have no way of knowing, but, this is frequently the platonic dialog that goes on. he just wants me to repeat things I’ve said before, because it’s important. So, “Abe Lincoln doesn’t care”? You mean the government doesn’t care? So what else is new? The government officials must be held accountable for the 35,000 deaths by gun violence in Mexico to support an appetite for drugs in The United States. No-one can be complacent in the face of those numbers, not the money. We didn’t kill them in the years 1990-2000, so, what has changed? It looks like we exported the death (if not the high) in the worst possible way, akin to how the British killed thousands of Chinese in the Opium Wars. The British were not “con” on opium, they were “pro”. The Chinese wanted it gone since it was decimating Chinese society in their homeland, a good excuse to fight if I ever heard one.

      Wikipedia
      The First Opium War was the beginning of a long period of weakening of the state and civil revolt in China, and long-term depopulation. In 1842, China’s population was over 400 million, of whom at least 2 million were opium users. By 1881 the country’s population was less than 370 million, of which as many as a third made regular use of opium.[27]

      I don’t want these people to be dying. Many die due to the status quo. Telling how to make meth is not evil intelligence which will cause one to go bonkers. It’s inclusive of the physical basis of reality and is adequate matter for discussing truth in order to extend the great work and not make wild speculations about my “assumptions” which you have no way of knowing.

      Phosphene (you misspelled it. There are over a million chemicals in common use. What do you think happens when people are sloppy about spelling chemical names?), most certainly is produced in a steam distillation, as are vapors of the material of interest. That’s why we want the phosphorus out. The vapors during reflux are removed by a gas scrubber (this site). DEA doesn’t publish better syntheses, because they are playing a game for keeps which kills their prey by any means available, through every trick in the book. It’s pretty obvious drugs kill people not because of their preventable effects, but because of the intentional effect of the enforcers of the law, like declaring war against the poor.

      “Trpiodine” is obviously misspelled. We don’t have any syllables where p follows tr, but, I am aware of DEA “fingerprinting” batch production methods, as well as other harebrained schemes designed to stop everything from fertilizer bombs to nuclear weapons, as well as assertions that aziridines result from the HI method. We aren’t product-liable. We are disarmed combatants subject to slaughter by an oppressive regime. All the millions of deaths and lives spent without hope for advancement is a crime laid at the doorstep of the powers that be. LE got all the anti-precursor laws they asked for.

      Painters do not wear any more than a surgical mask against particles, since they enjoy the toluene high. The proper thing has a rubber seal against the face, no beards, and replaceable cartridges of a type specific to the contaminant, like, “organics”. It’s a seventy-five dollar item, well worth the money. I cooked while I was piss testing on probation using that, but, I tried to do product and there is no five-day period to get it out of the system. I got a dirty even staying clean five. I don’t recommend seven, either. I think I recommend fighting the case. They have a sixth sense whether you are using, and will just raid you the day after testing you the day before.

      Tonya Harding is on TV now. She was convicted of having Nancy Kerrigan beaten with a stick. Kerrigan went on to get the silver medal on a sympathy vote. She’s as ugly as Katharine Hepburn, who was the typical Parkinson’s vic for decades. This disease has an environmental form only discovered by illegal drug manufacturing, so science owes us, funny how they do not acknowledge the debt. But, I wanted to add that with toluene and nitrous oxide, I can sit here and do six different drugs in relative safety. You can get a head-ringer in a grocery store within ten minutes from right now just off the Reddi-whip can held straight-up, and put back behind some olives after you partake. Just hold onto the basket so you don’t fall. And, fill it up with luncheon meats and brezad, turn a corner into the area you’d go to the rest room in, scarf a sandwich quickly, and abandon the cart and leave the store. They won’t catch on unless you go back too many times. But, Tonya said, “Nothing goes up my nose but a finger to put a booger out”, she had to clarify since she is on a show with Busey and Bonaduce.

      • adam Says:

        steve,

        need your advise and opinion, with regards to the red phos hydro acid method.

        using 50liter glass reactors. basic run through the proceedure as you would see it would be great if you have time.
        mass production technique. thanks man

  20. abe lincoln could care less about losing meth money to mexicans Says:

    Oh, and with that cheap mason jar trick, or someone who knows about real beakers or is willing to put out for a lab grade pyrex condenser 3 neck flask rig/setup, it ain’t that hard to let that gas run into a 2nd flask filled with water to “eat” that gas…..but the smart ones will get the condensation tube (if it’s the straight one and not the cheesy condenser flasks) fitted with a tight seal to run surgical tubing into another standard pyrex flat bottom flask AWAY from the external heat (water bath or not) and have that flat bottom flask fitted with a proper airtight cork…..no that is how you avoid the smell !!!!

    I’ll leave it to anyone, chemists or not, with some patience to think out how to avoid the smell of opening the cook flask (clue: bathroom, lots of hot steam, HVAC or at least full body cover flight suit with painters fume mask, full suction fan on on the top floor or out in a country house with no neighbors for at least 2 acres, OR learn to make a simple FUME HOOD.

    Wow!

    Pay with bad crap, your life, or pay for lab grade mexican stuff….whatever you do, most of those here will end up in my industry eventually or dead (clue: rehab and user detection).

    abe – I’m not egotistical enough like so called “home chemists” or crank cooks to call myself a “cook” or chemist. I’m just the guy that reverse engineers their little games, finds out how they poison themselves, and eventually end up talking to a roomful of idiots who wonder in awe when I mention most of them die not from the meth but the POISONS they get in their kitchen crank (and no I don’t mean the LEGAL kitchen grade, dirt crank. If meth kills, most anti-meth orgs, moms, and lesser informed LE misses the reality most are not from OD or meth itself, but the years of gearheads tweaking deadly levels of trplodine, sucking in deadly levels of iodine and phosphorous, and the HIGHER cardiac risks of undercooked (that means pfed/efed) meth vs. meth. Most of your cheap self bakers are going to die from these and not abuse of real meth….that requires something called “lab grade” meth.

  21. abe lincoln could care less about losing meth money to mexicans Says:

    You are as high as a kite bill. The computer escaped what? Chemists are not computer scientists. And so called home chemist cooks are just cranks, crank cooks…live with it.

    In what land do you live. Therapy is something that happens for the convicted and the ones who get help before being forced to go or serve harder sentences…it’s a term called mercy.

    Addicts don’t WANT their drug at the start…half the time people like you misinform them or they are just stupid. Others know full well, either way the WANT isn’t what leads most to long term addiction….it starts as a game and ends as a nightmare….it doesn’t take a genius to know you play with the ice yourself….but your kind always thinks you can get away with it online…you probably will and be too stupid to know how many years you shaved off, or maybe you are one of the few not dumb enough to think you didn’t cut off a few years or decades….depending on if you’re an injector, multi-G smoker, or ice/coke/crank-crack addict.

    Learn to check the clan chem stuff you repost…..I just caught a major error in your little meth acetate piece once again….where is the dope genius? In what ingredient?

    Painters often don’t wear masks to get high on the toulene, or now xylene? So what? Many DON’T…..just a ones that want to blow their brain do…..know or bother reading how many of their friends who did talk about how the ones who did are half gone mentally with 1/3 of their life left? Brains….use it.

  22. Five deceased police insane diego since Jan 1st Says:

    The reference is to things which are impossible until some geeks create a machine to do them, in accordance with the setting for it, a lab. What looks good on paper sometimes makes life worse for people who must contend with it. Once it’s no longer confined, how do you control it?

    I’m not going to get into mistakes I reposted. You are not saying I said something with a big mistake in it, just to be clear. And, you went back 400 posts to do it. Can we move on? I’m at Post #729. I know there exists a detailed and warped recipe if I ever need to reference it.

    The dope is in the suzy, not the acetate.

    No more questions.

    I do not like the tone of this thread, it’s tendentious:

    Expressing or intending to promote a particular cause or point of view, esp. a controversial one: “a tendentious reading of history”.

    marked by a tendency in favor of a particular point of view : biased. — ten·den· tious·ly adverb. — ten·den·tious·ness noun. See tendentious defined for …

    The author’s tendentious history of the chemical company …

  23. sbillinghurst Says:

    Ooh, jeez. Fifty liters, huh? I had noticed that heating pure water to its boiling point proceeded smoothly; I could heat it at a degree per minute, so I didn’t overheat it. But, something like a reaction doesn’t behave that way. While you are getting it up to reflux temperature, the reaction kicks in and dumps more heat into it, causing a runaway heating effect, and it boils all at once, shooting all over the place. Start smaller, run it until you get familiar, scale it up. It’s on here as “recipe #1″, or, “Recipe from 2006″.

    What part about the scale-up do you not understand, Adam?

    • adam Says:

      ok, thanks man, you basically reassured me, i agree with your points. i was wondering if the reaction time differed, when the scale is a bit higher?
      thanks steve

      • sbillinghurst Says:

        Objection, nonresponsive. Consider I get overruled. Of course it takes longer to heat a big batch up. Don’t speed that up. Temperature is an intensive property. It’s the same everywhere in the batch. Volume is an extensive property, imposed from the outside. One of ‘em is in theory; we have state functions like Gibbs free energy. Heat only has meaning when it moves from place to place, so, it is not a quantifiable measure of a system. Time, well, a rate is “per second”, and, seconds are time. But, the word rate applied to things other than time, a rate of change of something else, I think is problematic in theory. There aren’t any other changes except those happening in time, so, we can’t output it so well. The old rule before the Arrhenius rate equation came in said for every increase of ten degrees C, the reaction rate doubles. Don’t try to make up time on the road, you’ll have an accident. So, why try to mess with something which is already standardized to fit the work day? Just leave it boiling, take a sample, if it works up to crystal, cut off the heat, then you tell me how long it takes. But of course, nobody ever does, so, how do you people expect me to know?

  24. Xveckthorn Says:

    Steve,

    I’ve been pondering on this for a few days, and I’m hoping maybe you have an answer or want to theorize.

    For a small scale Red Phosphorus/Hydroiodic Acid reduction (we’ll use 10 grams for this example), how long does the reaction last before heat is *required* to continue with the reduction? I know that most employ a gentle boil, but let’s assume that the chemist has all the time in the world at their disposal. Would the reduction eventually work itself to completion as long as the Red Phosphorus remained in contact with the Hydroiodic Acid? Or is heat absolutely necessary to produce a fully reduced product? Does the Red Phosphorus eventually lose its catalytic value? I guess the best way I can ask this in so many words is: If HI, RP and Pseudo are left in contact with one another with no external source of heat, would the Pseudo eventually become fully reduced?

    • sbillinghurst Says:

      I do not have time to theorize this morning. I doubt meth changes back into pseudo, but it may change into aziridines, or pseudo may. You have any number of competing reactions. The yield of what we all want, so that we can get fully reduced to not even human, will exhibit a maximum at an optimum time and temperature value. You want to stop it there. But, this is not under equilibrium control, so, it must be kinetic control. But, without reflux to agitate it, who is going to stir it? A heater only costs two hundred bucks, a stirrer costs five hundred.

      http://loinen.i2p.to/rhodium/chemistry/meth.forensic.html

      intro to forensic chem of meth, see section on HI/P

  25. abe lincoln could care less about losing meth money to mexicans Says:

    I can’t help when idiots expose themselves.

    To ask how hot plates go bad and call oneself a scientist. You write about “click chemistry”, so the hot plate in question would not be a lab grade hot plate but obviously the one made for home cooking (of food)….they run on electricity….they go bad with age…..real scientists, people called engineers designed them you know.

    Your other poster proved my point on the other error. At least you got it right that the dope is not in the water…BUT notice the suzy is at the top and not the bottom…go figure…that is ALWAYS how ether floats with water….chemist? if you can’t read the short acetate post and catch that, you are a reason we need english as an official language and you need to get more “hands on” again. Even someone who’s never cooked before knows ether floats…it’s called READING.

    At least you weaseled out of the high production guy’s questions. God help him if you blow him up with your click chemistry and open containers.

    • sbillinghurst Says:

      Stop it. I know the answer. Hint: why does a hot plate cost ten dollars, but a laboratory hot plate costs $100?

      Okay, brother. Take it easy. I will get more hands-on again.

  26. Pigger pork lover Says:

    Go to India and Pakistan….no 10,000/kilo pfed there. That number is speculated by people who add in estimated costs of layers of overseas companies….a smart drug lord will run firms between countries where no more than 2 nations will cooperate easily…..but even then, the cost is falsified by “ass”umptions by a meathead of academia vs the meatheads of the farm belt that cook nazi style.

    If pfed cost that much, coke would cost less than meth….it is the opposite….and coke is king for cash flow still because meth is too easy to make….go figure…..multi-source your “truths”.

    Pigger does.

    • sbillinghurst Says:

      Suzy comes in to, say, Argentina. At least it did before the Argentine kingpin of it got caught. Right now, I’d say it comes in to Venezuela, the revolutionary Chavez regime, or, to the Evo Morales government in Bolivia. Evo’s second term runs out in 2014. Overland smuggling routes exist throughout S.A. The Panamanians have a porous entry point at the airport, Tocumen. Loads are broken up and driven north to Mexico. Evo ran on a platform of the people. He was a cocalero, and they have a union where they say that the traditional use of the leaf should not be interfered with by America, that it would be like him telling Coca-Cola to change their formula. Things like that make it less than a cut-and-dried proposition on how to stop it. The governments lack the will to agree that a substance is bad. The war in Afghanistan has made it easier to traffic narcotics. The ethical drug companies release chemists during cutbacks. But, I still don’t know everything about it. The recent capture of a cartel leader in Mexico means it should be possible to study what he knows, assuming he can be made to tell, but, that data doesn’t make it out to me. The nuclear problem is #1. Your attitude towards me sucks. I believe that education is the key to freedom. Slavery to a drug addiction is not freedom. Outlawing things the people want to do only gives them contempt for the law. We’ve r4ecognized for decades that the narcs inflate the value of seizures through this false method of calculation, as if to clkaim that the scope of the problem is linear with respect to how many doses are contained. If a joint costs a dollar, and an ounce rolls fifty joints, it is not correct to say an ounce is “worth” fifty dollars, but they have done that. The size of the addiction in the entire nation can be pinned to the consumption in the entire nation. There’s no better way because of the social stigma causing the medical issues to be underreported. Nor should they be overreported. Look, if I didn’t make an unqualified claim that it cost 10,000, then I have nothing to apologize for, even if it’s wrong. The blog says, “How to Make it”, not, “How to Jew the price down.”

  27. Kiss the Birdseed Off My Feathers « How to Make Methamphetamine Says:

    [...] http://sbillinghurst.wordpress.com/2009/08/13/pseudoephedrine-acetate/ Like this:LikeBe the first to like this post. [...]

  28. captaincook Says:

    hello

  29. mike Says:

    building a fume cupboard and useing it for this procedure would be a good idea

    • sbillinghurst Says:

      Or, just cleaning your room so it is not knee deep in newspapers, another good idea, depending. I am up to a cupboard, a bookshelf. I just clean it. I like the fumes. What procedure were you worried about doing fumes? I didn’t just clean it, of course. There are new ashes. I recommend everything in two parts, what I would do, and, if I was the stupidest person in the world, how could I fuck this up and kill myself? There are a thousand ways to die, and, on this one I have to go with the San Andreas fault knocking down a flimsy hood on top of us, too. Besides, the kitchen has one, so, why is it “build”? Try holding guns on people and borrowing.

      • adam Says:

        ok i got a few questions i would really like some one to confirm and give me some help,
        q1 – how do i tell the mixture has reacted and i can stop cooking? what signs shud i look for.
        q2 – after solvent extraction with toulene, i will be left with the oil rite?or oil and water? or what? then i add hydrochloric acid to it, how much acid and how strong should the acid be? and will it just crystalise quite quickly?

      • sbillinghurst Says:

        On HI/RP, just take a 5 mL sample and work it up before you destroy the reagent in order to recover the product. The sign is a characteristic smell, and, if it won’t crystallize, it’s still got ephedrine in it. q2 Okay, but, I use steam distillation since that takes care of the crystallization problems and it’s cleaner. Toluene or diethyl ether may be added to the oil layer to build up its volume; you’ll see why when the amount you lose is a constant, but the concentration varies. Acid is reagent grade HCl, 37%. But, it is tricky to get a ratio, say, one drop acid neutralizes a mL, so, split the oil into two in case you go over with acid. If you do, there is nothing I can say. Every way I have tried to fix it then just won’t crystallize. Take some product and base over a solution of it, to see what you are working with. It’s called snot. It could be from another method with an emulsion (difficult to separate layers), so, observe the layers and report back how you avoided an irreversible situation, Adam. Starting material ephedrine is a solid pure, meth’s a liquid.

  30. hrdtjyryr Says:

    anyone who took the time to read all that>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>cooked off more than i !!!later!!!

  31. queer loving pro-nazi Says:

    therge?

  32. adam Says:

    im using pseudo eph hlc, i am very gratefull for your help man, i hope you will guide me thru the next few weeks wen i try do a few tests, im trying 1kg pseudo, 1 litre ha and 250 gram rp, heated at 120.c for 48 hours in a 50 liter glass reaction vaccum flast. what pionters have you got for me? advice or help would be gratefully taken in, thanks again friend.

    \

    • sbillinghurst Says:

      How you do it is boil it under reflux; it comes up with its own constant temperature; should be 131 C. Noting these formulas for the volume and surface area of a sphere (your tank), V = 4/3 (pi) r^3, S = 4 (pi) r^2. substituting ten and a hundred for the radius shows that as the flask gets bigger, each cubic cm of material communicates with the outside less, increasing the chance for a runaway reaction. ie V = 4/3(pi) x 10 x 10 x 10 = ~4,000, S = 4 x pi x 10 x 10 = 1200, but, that’s 4:1. V = 4/3 x pi x 100 x 100 x 100 = 4,000,000, S = 4 x pi x 100 x 100 = 120,000, or, ~ 40:1. It’s all about heat; when the heated reaction mixture approaches the boiling point, the reaction kicks in and dumps in more heat, so, do that s-l-o-w-l-y. If it bumps, it puts material on the ceiling. You’re welcome.

  33. adam Says:

    thank you

  34. adam Says:

    hey guys, does any one have link to a video of the post reaction workup, would find this helpfull.

  35. adam Says:

    hey SB, can you help please, i have more questions for you i hope you can answer cos im gonna try cooking a batch very soon.
    1. im using a vacuum temp controlled reactor, is it possible to cook in 24hrs?
    2. what colour should the reaction mix be after cooking finished?
    3. should i wash the red phos before i use it, as it stains the water dirty purple colour.
    4. what colour is mixture after basing with sod hydrox.
    5. when i add toloune to the mix it sits ontop rite? does the meth actualy move from the honey water mixture to the toloune? and is the toloune then the liquid i use to add the hdro chlor acid to in order to crstalise?
    6. how do i crystalise? how much hcl acid do i add? and do i dilute it with water?

    your help is greatly needed and appreciated,
    await your reply, thanks man.

    • sbillinghurst Says:

      You may not be able to leech much more real-time help from this chemist, Slick. Herein lies the tale: Your buddy Strike invented this, “SWIM” thing. It seemed liek a good idea, but, they were fourteen, and, they don’t know a good ideal from a bad idea, cause from effect. So Strike, in the public domain operated illegally right under their noses. Assange operated legally but again, in some speed fraek control central. We keep this low-key lest a wave of poisonings commence over the safety of our… illegal drugs. We wouldn’t want there to be a hack into the safety of your air and water. Besides using a little time to research your questions, I ask you to not bug me with this. Beautiful.

      Freebase some coke into crack with a 50 mL screw-top erlenmeyer flask, noting how to shock product out with cold, and, noting the movement of chemicals into phases like solid and liquid. Dude, not only will this meth move into the toluene in any punk-pink phenolphthalein-indicated mix,it will devlop so much pressure doing so it’ll blow the top off the sep funnel if not relieved. I DONT KNOW what purple means, perhaps the stuff came out of an iodiny batch from before. Good, brick-colored P floats on top like a cork. When it settles it’s a beer yellow. When it bases over it is kind of white, the meth is like cooking oil floating on top and it reeks. If it’s solid when cool, that’s got to be ephedrine.

  36. adam Says:

    SB, can you explain how to distill the mix? and when? thanks again.

  37. dumpin'duncan Says:

    Hypothetically if my friend were to have 10g of pure ephidrine, whats the easiest way to turn it into something smokeable. I cant get any chromic acids so cant make CAT, I dont really want to make anything with RP and Iodine, I was interested in the “Nazi” method – any ideas.

  38. adam Says:

    i have purchased red phos, industrial grade, pretty wet and dirty, shud it be wased and dried before its used in the reaction?

    • sbillinghurst Says:

      I ran a reaction with 400 g. ephedrine HCl, 457 mL HI, 57% inhibited with sodium hypophosphite from the factory, and 50 g. P. The answer to your question is no, but, here’s a what I did: I added water to a 1-lb. can of P, thinking this would stop it from drying out and catching fire. The water added to the P formed phosphoric acid. That ate through the can around the bottom, and, some phosphorus was able to spill out where it contacted the wooden shelf and burned. By the time I saw it, the fire had gone out. I changed the procedure. Now, when I add water to P, I put the whole thing in glass, a mason jar. The mason jar lid sits above the compound and doesn’t corrode much. I am changing this story, though. It’s oxidizers like chlorate that can’t touch wood. They can’t even get dust in ‘em or they explode, so, you can’t leave a pile of it out. I don’t know what else you got going on, Adam. You’re pretty ambitious. I’m keeping an eye on your region. What continent are you on? That stuff always looks like that. It isn’t low-grade just becuase it’s wet and looks like brick dust. As for the smell, it doesn’t smell much compared with the meth, but it’s dangerous. Filter it all out before any further steppage like pH raising or steam distill. If the batch condenser water goes dry, it’ll kill everyone who sleeps through it. It’s phosphine http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphine, not phosgene. Phosgene, it said, smells like cut grass, while phosphine smells like garlic. It’s not that simple. Just keep cognizant of the maximum amount of chemicals that could have a given amount of wattage under it. Most accomplices will seal you in, thinking the smell will give away the location. Turning over a kilogram bottle of solvent is also a way to wreck the atm. Look up my post on the gas scrubber for another clean air tip.

  39. adam Says:

    thanks for quick response, the red phos i have is like small stones, bigger than sand, definatley not like powder, dark purple color. im in Asia, i have secure email if your interested in deeper chat, i will be needing help for sure.

    what i cant understand is, why is my reaction mix dark purple after 45hrs cooking, i have read it should be clear or yellow.

    • sbillinghurst Says:

      Freshly made hydriodic acid will begin to turn dark purple if not inhibited, but I would assume it’s still mostly good. You just add phosphorus, and, that should turn it all back into HI in solution. Are you saying it starts out yellow, and turns dark purple after 45 hrs reflux? My worry is capturing all the HI gas produced by dropping water on I2 + P. Take some of your dark purple solution and add sodium thiosulfate. If it’s iodine, that will destroy it. Just as a test, though. I’m not sure how to deal with iodine. You might not have to; I doubt it is carried over with the meth oil. It should stay behind in the water. I always suspected iodine together with acetone for making a nauseating smell. One source claims that the use of sodium hypophosphite in place of phosphorus generates a lot more of the deadly phosphine gas.

  40. adam Says:

    yes the hydriodic is yellow, i think the red phos has a dye in it or something. the first time i tried cooking i put the red phos in with out washing it, it turned the solution dark purple, after 45hrs reflux the solution was like a water like consistency. i based the solution to 13 or 14 and i didnt get an oil layer seperate from the solution.
    i am concerned that some of my materials are not what i think, eg, the pseudo isnt pseudo or the red phos is red. actually i think the red phos looks more like gun powder, after i washed it with water, it settles on the bottom of the glass, when i empty the water and look closely at the phos it is a dark purple colour sand like stuff. some very fine bits and some larger bits.

    after a couple of washes in water the red is clean and if i put in glass of water the water still remains clear.

    i have got a small flask and condenser and hotplate, im gonna attempt another go with say 30grams pseudo, how long do you think i shud let it reflux? i have read somewere that 24hrs is enough time for a small batch.

    whats your opinion on my red phos? does it sound like its red phos?

    also do you know of any way that i can test pseudo to make sure its pseudo and not something else.

    • sbillinghurst Says:

      Put a little P on a spatula and hold it in a flame. It burns in air with a white smoke. It glows in the dark. Pseudo has a bitter taste. Get some from a pharm to familiarize yourself with the taste. Look up the mp, I believe ephedrine HCl melts at 216 C. Meth HCl melts at 170-175. HI 57% vapor should be dark and stain paper, the stain should be removed by 2 S2O32−(aq) + I2(aq) → S4O62−(aq) + 2 I−(aq).
      If “hydriodic acid” is really HF, it will eat right through your flask and mantle, maybe kill you. The DEA loves that. The show, “Breaking Bad”, refers to it in the first episode obliquely. I don’t think batch size makes any difference to cooking time. Reflux is reflux. 24 hours is more than enough. http://sbillinghurst.wordpress.com/2010/06/13/merck-index-2/

  41. adam Says:

    thanks man, how do i tell if the reaction is completed and cooking is done? what color should i see, or what signs should i look for.
    thanks again

    • sbillinghurst Says:

      Let the batch cool down for sampling, pipette out 2 mL (contg. 1 1/2 g product), base over in a test tube w/ cool 50% NaOH. The vapor should make you high. Extract 3x w/ diethyl ether, combine extracts in an evaporating dish, neutralize w/ conc. HCl, let evaporate. The behavior of pure meth crystallizing is distinct. If a hot water solution of the maximum which will dissolve (one more drop of water makes it go from cloudy to clear) does not turn into real sharp crystals as it cools, it could be incomplete, and, it’s no use trying to separate meth from pseudo by fractional crystallization. The batch should then be cooked some more. If it crystallizes easily by dropping in a seed crystal, you are done.

  42. Gufffy Says:

    I need to know more about the simple way of cooking meth to avoid explosion.

  43. adam Says:

    @ sbillinghurst, afte cooking andi base the reaction mixture, it turns balck, with a oil layer seperating on the top, is this mormal?

    • sbillinghurst Says:

      …my ever-lovin scientific mind…oh nothing. Where? Here. Here is how we enter into a conspiracy. Didn’t you even tell me what color it was before it turned black? The base is the agent which returns all the substance to the way things are formed as from simpler substances. iow +NH2R’R” —–> NHR’R” and H+. So, you got a +N in the center, three-dimensionally, two Hs, and two Rs, four things surrounding it, a four-coordinated ion. Gonna wanna be tetrahedral. H2O —–> H+(acid) and -OH(base). OH- + H+ ——> H2O.

      As a hot reaction mixture, you can’t throw in flammable solvents. What do you think, pyco-pyco, or, nico-nico imaey? You let it cool down. Filter out all solids. I heat up again when I base. That reaction spits caustic. I can’t cool down. You got me spinnin’ round and round.

      As the turbulence settles, an oil layer forms. Why? Bec “no longer an ion” means, “no longer dissolves in water”. It clings to itself; if it’s heavier than water, it sinks. If there’s no water, it sinks if it’s heavier than THAT. Of what? Of the solvent you put in there such that your 500mL water layer is now surmounted by 500 mL of a solvent layer contg the free amine base, an acrid, bitter, burning, mobile, evil and expensive liquid by itself.

      If it doesn’t behave like that, and anything happens you are not sure of, such as liquids eating right through nglass even though they aren’t that hot, you probably got fluorides in the saqlab.

      • adam Says:

        before base the colour was dark purple. (if i wash the red phos before i cook, then the colour before basing is pale yellow)

      • sbillinghurst Says:

        I think it’s all fine. After the reaction’s over and it is based and an oil layer floats off, the aqueous portion remaining is eventually discarded after being extracted. Each one of these extracts may be examined for contamination before combining them all. I might note that the very next improvement to the process is to retain the phosphorus filtered out for use in the next batch, and, to risk an attempt to recover HI. It’s risky in the sense that the product is recovered more indirectly. Something could happen to it; but, the added step is after the P is filtered out, and, before the caustic base is added, the batch is returned to the flask used for reflux, and, the set-up is reconfigured for downward distillation. The heating is resumed, much as before, but the acid will boil out and is captured in a receiver. It should be 57% HI. This combined with the P and stored should be stable and gets you a jump on the reagents for the next batch. However, this particular evidence is a “slam-dunk” case for manufacturing, as is any dope-soaked or starting-material containing lab equipment, so, get it out of there.

        As the volume of residual acid containing all the product in this modification is reduced, perhaps water should be added such that extra-harsh conditions of heat and acidity do not rearrange product, I don’t know. In 1987, it was always possible to buy more acid and P. It was Gordon H. Alles who addressed the proper workup procedure regardless of the method by which the amphetamine was produced. Well, I mean, I think his was neutral, and, my concern is boiling acid to dryness may make everything in there turn green.

        A computer was recently seized by the FBI which contained e-mails from me, so, to you new people, you ought to take steps to anonymize yourselves; this blog collects IP addresses. To the old users, I just hope you did not know as little about Internet anonymity as how to make speed.

  44. mogo Says:

    Can you use acetone instead of H2S04

    • sbillinghurst Says:

      acetone’s a solvent, h2so4’s an acid. the solvent for acid is diethyl ether, the acid to use is hcl, but, i wonder where you saw this. i must have put a recipe in this post with no connection to me, and ppl quote it to me. it’s just to show you an example of a recipe which I did not write; they’re terrible. You can’t accidently say something intelligent. Please study.

  45. seo st petersburg Says:

    seo st petersburg…

    [...]Pseudoephedrine Acetate « How to Make Methamphetamine[...]…

  46. Colin Says:

    I am keen to see more pictures of the instructions in the various more important stages of the making of Meth Amphetamine Sulphate. You’ve got to assume were all dumb individuals that wouldn’t have the first Idea about buying the assorted flasks one would need to make it.
    Also can you please dumb down a lot the procedure for making Sudo Effedrine or I effedrine for novices like me who are keen to study this process in which a person makes Met Amphetamine Thank you!!!!

    • sbillinghurst Says:

      I spent oodles of hours today on that. Checking out all these doohickies they used to sell tailor-made for the meth trade reveals the practice from the level of a toy on up.

  47. Harley Turnbull Says:

    hi, Im lookin for some one that is able tohelp me,As Im going overseas soon, soo im wonderig wer wuld be a good holiday destination, so if possible for sum1 to help me out on such short notice, so we culd organize maybe sending a cupll panthlets as im lost for words cause the states are soo Big, an wuld not know the scenery, If interested email me at mrhteter at hotmail . com
    Live for the Money Die for the Cash,

    • m mcleod Says:

      im bored, i need to find something to do, a way to make more money. thinkin about going postal. do you live elsewhere, want a friend/partner, and posses ideas that could be helpful and benefit us? if so, let me know.

      • sbillinghurst Says:

        Don’t give up. If you have no reason to hate someone, show it by making it a little bit better, no matter how small. If you want to write to me, sbillinghurst@gmail.com. I’ll do business with you. What is it you want? That is, since you mentioned ídeas to benefit us, what is it that you can do to benefit us? Let me find out where you live.

        Alaska? So, that’s the context for the boredom and the post office? You have six more months of sunlight now. Get over it. Please do not make me extract your information. Volunteer, and what the hell do you mean using such language? I want every post coming out of your keyboard to be lucid, sane, and upbeat from now on, or, I’ll drop you like a stale donut.

  48. yson choy Says:

    in philippines we called it shabu…it is profitable…politics, leaders, government agencies, mostly cops, if you’re not generous to them that’s the time you became stupid….

    • sbillinghurst Says:

      I see. We do not use “became” like you do, to immediately shift tracks to rewrite the person’s acts they did a long time ago. Makes one instantly guilty and is a nice trick to pass along. They’re not possible to say when we became stupid, or thus chose to do wrong as a way of life, being what we’re doing now, or else it would be so unbecoming, which means ugly.

      • sbillinghurst Says:

        currently
        what am i sposed to mk frm the FAST AND THE FURIOUS, barmit? What about when i go to sunny mexico? If ppl are falling down, it is my breath? the only reason to join is the flies are flies, they were there all the time? They aren’t bullets/ They aren’t going to hook me up?

  49. mary in los angeles Says:

    bubbly beaker keep away from the tweaker beth is a constant whore on meth+you thought it was crank you jerk it was a prank and if u take my bank and drain the account out, ill go crazy punch u and scream and shout. i doodle while i think of pesuodo, feeling high, feeling low, i suddenly wrap a bow in meth beth’s grimy hair, and watch all the dopeheads blatently stare. draino that aint a go. why isnt it called drainYES as i fiend out wishing i could punch u as i confess we have become the ones that have less. your caress is superficial and im about to bust out the pistol because even tho u literaly didnt put a gun to my head the 1st time i hit the glass, alas the tables are reversed, and its my turn to blast and cast assh0l3s like your dumbass out of site. i beat it.
    Fight. fight fight. be the better person, beth. diassociate with Ms. Spun and cut the cursin’ and the threats of imagining you, your fellow man being loaded in a hurst. who wants to bet meth beth is gonna run, and live a life where shes got no soul left. How did you help the world today? Panhandling and asking hard honest peoples’ for their money? cAn’t get a job? Oh, now I know, Bob fired you. Your stupid excuse “he said i look like a morbidly obesed blob”, your lazy and it no longer phases me. you sure look like a slob. youre fully capable of walking. working, and thinking. and don’t forget to blink twice because when u go to bed tonight in that alley, those mice will gnaw and nibble at you until its no longer suffice. time to prepare a hit,pull out the rig and supply kit. you dont even care if you got HIV, using dirty needles, your a waste of human life and make zero effort to fight to stay alive. Zero to hero….scratch that. Do the world a favor and get a knife cause im the son of a beotch that with honors will take your wasted drug induced life. you r worse than crackheads. a crackhead would just steal my valuables, a tweaker would steal my valubles and have the audocity to help me waste time looking for it knowing fully well you got it you ccunt
    youre no good. even hoodrats in the projects with nada have standards and behave well instead of you and that dumb hood you hide over your hideous face. Don’t sit next to me you look like you got leprosy biotch or some kind of flesh eating bacteria. you look sixty, and not to sound picky but your mouth is gross and iller than a muslim eating a hotdog at an african festival. im not laughing. dont mean to point out your flaws but i saw a skeleton in the hall and was appauled. then i remembered the grim reaper dont carry no beeper….then i hear beep! and like a creep theres your fragile figure lurking in the shadows watching that lesbo Rachel Maddow with your dope partner in crime Miguel.
    Your holes in your shoes are atrousious. Even worse your socks popping thru are beyong the word gross. i bet sucker pedestrians feel bad and buy you sneakers only so you can turn around and sell them and continue being a rotten tweaker. How’s your teeth? i can see your cheeks caving in from beneath since u loss them all and just let them rot out and fall. you ever think of dentures? The venture in searching for a decent dentist would be will worth it. but who am i kidding, you dont give a flying shit.
    why don’t you just quit. there’s no such thing as quitting bit by bit. you look ridiculous constantly lit. and i’ve had enough missy. So go run off with your loser dudeman Miguel, he’s no man he’s a damn sissy. You dont have to be a psychic to know that once you tap his ass out for dope youll move on to the next weak sucker. i want to say next weak muferfooker but maybe there wont be a next time. Enjoy your next line Miss Meth Beth cause once you burn all the briges in this town I know i’ll never see u again. It’ll be the end. So stop pretending nothings wrong. Youve been doing this way too long. I got my life to live….i must stay strong…and find happy clean people that show love and make me feel belonged. Thieves, cowards, cleptos, liars, borrowers, feeble-minded and druggies are not my type of people.
    i cant help you.
    all u do is lie
    dont reach me til you get the help you need
    and quit biting the hand that feeds
    you will succeed
    if u follow thru with the correct deeds
    please please fight to get better
    and when u do i cant wait to read your letter
    call me crazy, call me unfair
    but your sorrow has taken its toll and is not fair.
    im getting tired its very late
    i wish u knew how badly i worry about you fate…..
    my bigggest fear is these 2 words: you and cremate.
    please get help before its too late.

    say no to dope…or there is no hope
    you can sit there and mope and mope
    i refuse to watch u to continue to fall further down the slope.
    Either say nope or fight and keep the focus and cope

    have your so-called street buddies poured theyre hearts out?
    have you caused them to scream and shout?
    sure u have, when ur clepto ass duked it out and left with a pout
    there wont be a next time, just bang bang pow pow
    and only a memory of your obituary ill read about
    dont do it for me do it for you,,,,,
    youll fail if your fighting for my tough love back
    you can have it once youve proven….and quit losing.
    i want to be happy with u not crappy
    its now or your young life is on a short schedule.
    go ahead, hate me, no 1 else has the balls to look at you and say what theyy see…..i do because i love u. even if the drugs make u hate me i know its the meth devil talking, not you.

    mary
    south los angeles

    • sbillinghurst Says:

      Ooh, thank you, thank you, thank you. Excel-LEN-te, Mary from L.A. I love content. I’ll read it later, gotta go, child alone.
      –SEB

      • Ajin Says:

        Hi Steve…any chance you want an intern in your lab/ I have a BS in Biochemistry and Cell Biology and I worked in “Drug Development & Discovery” at “Super Pharma X” for many years as a Research Scientest in the Lab. Most interested and impressed by your work and communication skills…

      • sbillinghurst Says:

        Well, I can’t give a yes-or-no answer. I don’t have a lab. My idea is to transfer the part we can’t work on to other sources. Once the information is obtained, it is safe to have. I’m willing to possess it. I’m not willing to set up experiments to obtain it. I’m high-profile. This is the problem: how to bring information to the public which is a crime to produce, but not to know. If you like, contact me by e-mail about not duplicating efforts, division of labor. Could you please produce a one-page essay on a topic of interest to this audience? BTW, I don’t pay.

        sbillinghurst@gmail.com

  50. Redux Says:

    Great post, Just a couple of questions.
    1) If one can’t get brake cleaner with 1,1,1-trichloroethylene, could another non-polar solvent be used in order to dissolve the pseudoephidrine free base and form the multiple layers? Would a solvent such as xylene or toulene work?
    2) If xylene (boiling point 130-140C) or toulene (boiling point 110C) could be used as the non-polar solvent , when evaporating it from the mixture, would pseudoephidrine acetate’s boiling point be greater than that of toulene or xylene so itself will withstand evaporation and be crystalised at the bottom of the bowl?
    3) If one has caustic soda 98% NaOH, would 1/4 teapsoon still be used? I’m not sure what the exact % of NaOH is contained within a lye mixture.

    Thanks

  51. pac96abd Says:

    Great Post ! just couple Q !!
    i found a medicine that have :
    Triprolidine HCI
    Paracetamol
    and Pseudoephedrine HCI for sure
    whats other two do ?

  52. Flav Says:

    Im so sick of everyone telling me speed or meth is bad. I know that….we all do. However for many years i used tiny amounts of it to give me energy boosts and this resulted in my business growing 5 x its rate. Now i want to make my own for myself. Not sell it or try make millions… I just want to have a better quality of life which it gave me at the time. Now im back to being normal and its pathetic. I have tried being normal for the last 5 years and lost my business and everyone in it. I operate at a much better level on a bit of speed…just like Hitler did and just like President Kennedy did. Speed brings my body to a reliable consistent rate and it also makes me depression free. Im currently now relying on duromine which is rubbish. I get 10 minutes of alertness and then all the head aches that come with it…and this crap is legal. wtf!!!! Help me get back my better life without going to dealers!!!!!

  53. tmac Says:

    my first post and a very basic question..here in England i have easy access to ephidrine,my guess is its not gona last.is there a big advantage in entering into this process with pseudo rather than straight ephidrine ,if so could you please explain ?

    • sbillinghurst Says:

      There is nothing to quibble about when it comes to a choice between ephedrine and pseudoephedrine; it’s between (L)-ephedrine and (D)-pseudoephedrine on the one side, “compounds transformable to (D)-methamphetamine”, and, on the other, “cpds transformable to (L)-methamphetamine”. Of the two ephedrine isomers, only the L precursor will make the D product. Decongestants containing E or pseudo-E have the correct isomer. When ordering from a chemical company, don’t tell ‘em you want to be sure and get the one that makes speed, which is too conspicuous. Tell them they better not try to sell you the one that doesn’t make speed, that you heard it’s no good for other reasons. In any case, celebrate like a big dog when you finally make it.

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  55. Harrison Says:

    jeszcze odjąć wygraną również wyjechać zatem, najsympatyczniej Harrison bezpiecznie.
    Owo miało znajdować się zadanie Arnolda. Von Egger
    nie niepowodzenie wygłosił o
    swych zjadliwych stosunkach z dworem. Przysięgał, że w otoczeniu króla m.

    • sbillinghurst Says:

      You are the woman who takes the name of 1718’s inventor of Antabuse.

      still subtract win also leave therefore, najsympatyczniej Harrison safely.
      That would be the task of Arnold. von Egger
      failure is not made ​​of
      his virulent relations with the court. He swore that surrounded the King

      Way where with your women?–I don’t use, dong-dong!
      Welcome to Dow-Dow MetaPhetamine. Curies are looking for you.

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  65. Same Says:

    has anyone tried to extract pseudo from Cirus 120mg?
    in Europe what is best OTC for extraction?

  66. Anonymous Says:

    any safe and legitimit pseudo sites to order from

    • sbillinghurst Says:

      I’ve medaled in the Olympics, so I know it from recovery of ephedrine HCl pills at a skyrocketing price now; historical breakeven so you break even is $1 a gram, but if this stated milligram amount per pill, 25-250, figure losing 40%, it’s almost just a mistake to try as 10-20 dollars a gram.

  67. Anonymous Says:

    The following is an excerpt from a Forensic Science International paper in 2007:

    “Methamphetamine was synthesized according to the method of Windahl [14] with slight modification. A solution of (+)-pseudoephedrine HCl (5.0 g), red phosphorus (0.1 g) and hydrochloric acid (10 mL) was heated under reflux at 130 °C for 5 h, followed by addition of distilled water (12 mL). After standing overnight at room temperature, the reaction mixture was rendered basic with addition of 20% NaOH (22 mL), then extracted with diethyl ether three times. Residual H2O from the ether extract was dried over MgSO4. Then methamphetamine was crystallized from the ether.”

    I notice that they never used HI. Is this synthesis any good? They also didn’t report yield

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  70. suzzy Says:

    ini adalah cairan yang terikat asam (hcl) kemudian bercampur dengan Triprolidine hcl dikemas dalam botol syrup.

    campuran tersebut berupa cairan dan bukan padat yang harus kita haluskan dengan blender kopi.

    1-apakah cairan tersebut harus kita buat free bese dengan menambahkan alkali, kemudian kita larutkan ke pelarut non-polar ? kemudian exsekusi dengan gelembung gas HCL

    2- Apakah cairan tersebut harus kita tambah HCL untuk melepaskan cairan syrup dari “my Suzzy”, kemudian dibuat free base.

    2- Bagaimana dengan Tripolidine yang base acid, apakah ikut juga dengan “Suzzy” yang juga base acid? pada saat dibuat free base?

  71. Anonymous Says:

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  72. vu Says:

    hepl me ! make methamphetamin ??????made???

    • sbillinghurst Says:

      Hmm, yeh, yeh, yeh, yeh. Not in time the way you put it. Leaving your issue under a newspaper, cause with Stepehn, yer not lyin’. Dyin’ isn’t a threat. Anytime is alright. Medical, Beaners.

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